The Olive Branch

Peter,there is really nothing to discuss.You relegate anyone argument to the 'obvious and at the same time nothing at all'.But in the end there really is nothing at all because everyone is playing the same game.You too state the obvious and it comes down also to 'nothing at all' .There is no more to...

I just said that I mentioned the Jews of Europe as I imagined the experience looking from their perspective and the fact that it wouldnt mean too much to a muslim living in the Middle east unless it affected their own lives. You then went on to mention your family relative to discussing losses and i...

I brought up the Jews of Europe in reference to an arab looking at those European jews coming in to the area and the subsequent loss of land.It was you that made it equivalence by bringing up the losses for your family and comparing that to all people who have lost property etc and negating the idea...

For me Peter its up there but for many right wing religious jewish extremists they hailed the guy. The fact that israel is a democracy and that jews live in democracies makes it easier for Jews to be vocal against such acts. I am not equalizing the Jews and the Arabs but when I talk about the Arabs ...

Yes but the fact he is in jail is more a reason of good social and justice institutions in israel,and nothing to do with political.
I would say that most muslims find the act of Bhutto repugnant too and other acts of terrorism.
So is that equivalence also?

Akiva,terrorism is a funny word.Its really not the act itself but the thought and reason behind the act that is the problem.Very few are wanton acts. We can get into all kinds of scenerios but Im not into your black and white thoughts of any of these things because that offers no hope.My intent was ...

Akiva there is much in the way of rhetoric,I personally am the most anti rhetoric person in the world.I am not into propaganda or rhetoric,rhyming or not so please dont read any of that into what I write. Im not into loyalty above reason or rhetoric above substance. Rhetroic and Propaganda are fine ...

Akiva any time you can say: Well how can we know everything?The truth is we dont know everything.That a lot remains a mystery.Why cant we just accept that part is a mystery.That we dont know (yet). Why do we have to accept whatever is on the plate? So we question.We can question.We probably can ques...

Akiva Im not a big fan of religion in any case.I have read the Koran or too much about it.I have looked at the Torah and studied some and went to jewish school.I look at also how the commentors make commentaries on what they think the abstract comments in the Torah mean.So they gave the commentaries...

Margie where do you get this idea from? Human beings are human beings and if you want to relegate all the Palestinians down to being inhuman then go ahead.But as jews we should never never do such a thing to any peoples. It stands to reason,if reason is any criteria that there are many types of peop...

Akiva maybe you missed some posts on number 4 page

You are asking me MY opinion Margie.My Opinion.Not Hamas's opinion.

Akiva I am not talking about statehood.I am talking about the llegitimate claims of the people living there that were shoved out of their homes. This is my point.Not the statehood.That was political.Those people were pushed aside and homes were taken.Thats what I mean.they were offered Jordan but th...

Margie you want me to answer that question.It shows how ludicrous this whole thing is.Thats an insult after all the things Ive written.

Akiva probably politically,at least in the non Israel world we are the same,basically common sense centrists. But when we project that to Israel why do we have to be black and white???? I hypothetically want to challenge the ideas of Israel,so what? What are we doing here on this blog? just agreeing...

Margie,my point in general was that if the idea that the palestinians,from their legitimate perspective and not any political or religious perspective were treated unfairly (most of the comments have been relative not to that but to how the jews were treated in Europe and arab countries and not spec...

For your information,Hitlers first act was to kill the intellectuals,then it was the jews...

It seems the word 'academics' is also becoming demonized.

You may not agree with Chomsky's politics but just because he sees israel a different way that you do,you call him anti semitic?(Im not talking about others calling him anti semitic) Just because he sees Israel wrapped up in socialism? Jews were always great socialists.We have a history of it.There ...

So you are saying that being a right winger is more relevant than being jewish when it comes to Israel??????
I dont understand.

So where does Akiva get off on blasting Chomsky with his being an antisemite? What right has Akiva got in calling any Jew an Anti semite??????? Cant jews be leftists????? Chomsky sees the ideal of Israel wrapped up in socialism,so what? There are many jewish leftists.Must the political thought be si...

Who is to say what is the right way that a jew should think?
Who is to say that agreeing with the policies with Israel is being a good Jew?
Maybe being a good jew is challenging ideas?
Who was a good German?

Do unto others as 'they' have done unto you?

Dont put words in my mouth.I didnt say you hated arabs. I said that the only reason for jews to hate arabs is because they hate us. The situation is different the other way around. They have taken less from us than we have from them and so they would have more of a reason to hate us. In any case I a...

Peter,I respect your views greatly but when you say the word 'they' that for me throws it all off for 'they' are not 'they'. It is a political word no different from equivalence and all the other words. While 'THEY' may hate Israel,they may hate israel for many reasons,while our only reason to hate ...

First of all I would say right off that 'Rape' was a bad word,an unneccessary word. Its not even a relevant word. But what he meant was not neccessarily bad.He wants America to reign in Israel and to force their hand. He wants to 'end the occupation' Many people want to 'end the occupation',the arab...

Margie you asking me to defend a comment you initiated is ludicrous!!!! First of all it needs to be in context first and that is the whole link and also if there isnt much there something of a history of his thinking to fill in the blanks.Things are done far much too much here in a vacumn,no wonder ...

Noted,Margie but if you are going to quote how about quoting the portion of the Haaretz editors comments about intending to cause damage to Israel. But before you do,please check it very carefully,because Im sure Haaretz have no intention to cause damage to Israel although Im sure they would like to...

This was not from me.So please take it out.

Would really like to know how I got a comment attributed to me when I didnt make that comment.Its right at the bottom of the last post

Not if you are Russian.

Robi wrote:

Ronnie Wolman wrote:Maybe the fact that anyone can become a jew while only arabs can become arabs????

If you had read the Israeli papers, You would know how strict the rules are to be accepted as a Jew

Maybe the fact that anyone can become a jew while only arabs can become arabs???? What are you? British? Canadian? European? I'll just give you some information about the equality and fairness of our treatment. there were no quotas for immigration for Arabs but for Jews there was a quota of 1500 per...

One more point,Margie.If you are African and not European,then those arabs they went to Palestine during the late 1800's and early 1900's are surely Palestinian? No?

If there wasnt a Holocaust in Europe,at what point would have Israel been formed? Was there sure to be this mass armada from the arab countries and somehow the world have got the momentum to grant the jews a homeland? Tell me in history when have people NOT gone to greener pastures if they could? I ...

Its quite surprising that only Peter from anyone could admit a smidgeon of truth about the history from a legitimate Palestinian perspective. and that was barely. If I was a Palestinian I wouldnt care about the European problems of jews.Why would I? It was only when they ended up on my doorstep that...

I would actually not offer the arabs anything.Nothing at all.The whole deal is built on nonsense anyway.
May as well keep the status quo the way it is.

Israel is armed with many weapons.It has many physical weapons,it must have to survive.It has many political weapons too to survive. It also has propaganda,again to survive.I would not even question any of those things because I too want a strong Israel. But that is not the point of this.The point o...

Margie there was a huge difference.The people of the area in modern times were mostly culturally arab and this 'giving' by non arabs to arabs and jews alike was not of their own doing and not accepted.Those countries formed were re-formed from arab areas to arab areas,not from European and Americans...

Peter your heart of the matter is right but as usual only partially,the other heart of the matter is that we discarded the arabs of the area in our great need for a homeland. But this doesnt resonate,does it?It doesnt matter,does it? you dont care,do you?
So why bother?

Peter there is no peace plan until we get to the heart of the matter. You cant negotiate without showing that you care.It doesnt work that way.They will take and that will be until the next time when they start again. Making a relationship out of this will improve the area for it will be something t...